...a FFVII rant
Jul. 19th, 2010 01:29 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
rose_of_painWell more so about dealing with fans of the compilation...
So I got into this small debate with this guy on a forum. Started out decent and was originally about cosplay. Mostly that we had similar views but I was a lot nicer towards my views and he much harsher and I didn't think that was really fair considering I believe a person has no right to judge whether someone can or can't cosplay a character if they themselves can't actually create a costume on their own. And well I've always had the view that everyone should do whoever they want as long as its appropriate for their body type.
But anyways... I was talking about the pants I was making and he just assumed they were for a previous costume I was talking about. Told him they weren't, but they are kinda similar to the ones that character wears. He gets a little snippy at me, saying that unless they're AC Cloud's pants that Cloud's pants are actually quite different than that character's pants. I'm like "O_o I didn't even say this had anything to do with FF7. It doesn't." "Well you mentioned you did Cloud earlier." "Yeah, I do other characters too. And btw...Cloud's AC pants are actually nothing like that guy's pants. Completely different style."
But then we got into Genesis. He really likes Genesis. I don't like him at all. But I was like "hey, whatever floats your boat. But you still gotta admit he is like the biggest Mary Sue out there." And that's where the real argument started. This guy couldn't understand me on my point. That Genesis is basically Gackt in the FF7 world.
I mean I've never been able to like Genesis because of this. I look at him and I can't get around the fact that it's Gackt. If the design wasn't so exact, I may have been able to like him. I wouldn't mind if Gackt just did the voice but the fact they made a character to look exactly like him and just ugh...so I spent all of CC glaring at him. lol As I'm not a Gackt fan. Never have been. Well, I take that back, I liked Malice Mizer era Gackt but not a big fan of Gackt-Gackt. I like some of his music and I admit he's incredibly talented. But I can't like him as a person. His personality pisses me off. So thus I was pretty unhappy to know Gackt would be in FFVII. Hell I think even if I did like Gackt I'd still be put off by that idea. As it just seemed like it was tainting the game to me.
But yeah, I can let it go that people like him. I'm fine with that. I like a lot of characters people don't like so I don't hold it against them. But most people who do like Genesis still admit to the fact that yeah, he is Gackt, unless they don't know about Gackt. But this guy, he knows, and yet argued that he is a legit character and that my point made no sense. n_n; So I pointed out how Genesis kinda screws up the original plot of FFVII by even existing. The fact he has a single wing and is part of the Project and a General kinda takes away from Sephiroth's unique-ness that he always had before CC was made. And they screw around with a lot of the original story in all the compilation games. There are scenes that don't work right with the original. Most notably in CC with Genesis talking to Sephiroth in Nibelheim as that scene is an actual scene in the original game but without Genesis obviously.
Well this guy argues that Genesis can't be a Mary Sue because he isn't powerful at all and "the easiest boss fight in the game". Well that latter bit all depends on individual game play as I didn't think he was the easiest. O_o; And he didn't get my point that I was referring to the fact that Sephiroth was supposed to be the only one like that. But eh, whatever.
But then I got kinda "..." when he argued that Genesis is "canon" (when I made the point that he is not a canon character with the original story and that Crisis Core isn't really canon in general) because he's in Dirge of Cerberus. ...which I had to laugh at and told him that of all the games, I consider Dirge the LEAST canon and try to forget that one ever existed. As seriously that one really fucked up the game plotline and Genesis' appearance at the end STILL makes no sense (and I still dread that it means they plan to do another game at some point involving him being around after Dirge >>;;).
So I'm making the point that even though I do like CC and AC, I still don't think they're really canon. They have plot points that are kinda fishy and most of it really is just about the graphics and fight scenes which I appreciate but yeah...the original game will always be the best.
...then he tells me he hates the original game.
....yeah.
I'm like "Ok, how can you be a FF7 fan and hate FF7? O_o;"
"I'm not. I'm a Crisis Core fan."
-_-
That seriously just kinda killed me. I hate when people claim to be fans but refuse to play the original or don't like it. And then he goes on to list his reasons why he hates the game (which a number are reasons why I LIKE the game). His main point was that he hates Cloud. And of course we all know I love Cloud so I'm like "ok obviously we can't see eye to eye on this as you hate all the things I love about FF7 and you like all the things I hate with it." But I also brought up the fact that really now, you still can't dispute that Genesis is Gackt and mentioned the fan theory that he got the part just because Square wanted to make it up to him for the whole Squall thing.
Him: "What about Squall? >> He's my favorite character ever."
Well then. That would explain a lot.
So I tell him about the thing with FFVIII and the whole "conspiracy" that Square ripped off Gackt's Illuminati design (I never did find out if this whole debate was real or not with the claim that he sued them or if he even cared at all, as everything I heard was just rumors from fans). And while I agree that design is similar, the outfit is pretty different so it wasn't like they did a direct rip-off anyways but yeah, I've always joked about that being the reason why Gackt is in FFVII whether the rumor is true or not.
But I then went on to make the point that I like Cloud because of all the disorders he has and I find him extremely fascinating because of it. While he claims that there's something "wrong" with liking Cloud's disorders yet claiming Genesis doesn't exist. Because I pointed out to him the scene where Genesis talks to Sephiroth in CC (when he insisted that Genesis never talked to Seph in Nibelheim O_o;) and then after I showed him, he said it didn't mess FF7 up at all because Genesis wasn't at the "burning" scene and I point out that the scene DOES exist in FF7 and that it was in a flashback of when Zack follows Seph into the reactor but of course we see it from Cloud's POV 'cause this is when Cloud still doesn't know his memories are of Zack's...and the guy claims that Genesis does exist. Cloud is just too fucked up and a lame hero and thus doesn't remember him.
...
So after I tried to comprehend that one. I then pointed out that I couldn't understand how much he liked Squall as I find that character to be the most boring FF character out there. And after he dissed FF7's battle system (saying that was another reason he hated FF7) I then turned and asked him how he could possibly like FF8's as that one is seriously the worst of them all.
...and he tells me he's never played FF8.
...
That he likes Squall because of Kingdom Hearts and Dissidia.
Yet he claims Squall is his favorite character.
Ok if you were going by just KH, wouldn't you call him Leon instead? n_n As I still believe that KH Leon and FF8 Squall are two different characters. They act too different to really be the same guy and I actually like KH Leon while I can't stand FF8 Squall. lol And seriously Dissidia tells you nothing about him anyways.
So yeah...
I hate fans like this. n_n Normally I wouldn't really even argue that far with one but this guy was someone that's been in the thread I hang out in for quite a while so was trying to understand him since it's someone I can't just ignore. But ugh. Seriously?
...no wonder so many of my friends have given up on this fandom. It's full of idiots who only like the newer stuff and don't appreciate the original stuff. I miss the days of old. T_T And yet I can't give up the fandom as I like it too much but I really do miss the days before the compilation existed. I mean I do like the compilation (except for Dirge) but it just changed so much. Blah.
End rant. Sorry if some of that didn't even make sense. I should be going to bed. XD; *braindead*
~Lyn
So I got into this small debate with this guy on a forum. Started out decent and was originally about cosplay. Mostly that we had similar views but I was a lot nicer towards my views and he much harsher and I didn't think that was really fair considering I believe a person has no right to judge whether someone can or can't cosplay a character if they themselves can't actually create a costume on their own. And well I've always had the view that everyone should do whoever they want as long as its appropriate for their body type.
But anyways... I was talking about the pants I was making and he just assumed they were for a previous costume I was talking about. Told him they weren't, but they are kinda similar to the ones that character wears. He gets a little snippy at me, saying that unless they're AC Cloud's pants that Cloud's pants are actually quite different than that character's pants. I'm like "O_o I didn't even say this had anything to do with FF7. It doesn't." "Well you mentioned you did Cloud earlier." "Yeah, I do other characters too. And btw...Cloud's AC pants are actually nothing like that guy's pants. Completely different style."
But then we got into Genesis. He really likes Genesis. I don't like him at all. But I was like "hey, whatever floats your boat. But you still gotta admit he is like the biggest Mary Sue out there." And that's where the real argument started. This guy couldn't understand me on my point. That Genesis is basically Gackt in the FF7 world.
I mean I've never been able to like Genesis because of this. I look at him and I can't get around the fact that it's Gackt. If the design wasn't so exact, I may have been able to like him. I wouldn't mind if Gackt just did the voice but the fact they made a character to look exactly like him and just ugh...so I spent all of CC glaring at him. lol As I'm not a Gackt fan. Never have been. Well, I take that back, I liked Malice Mizer era Gackt but not a big fan of Gackt-Gackt. I like some of his music and I admit he's incredibly talented. But I can't like him as a person. His personality pisses me off. So thus I was pretty unhappy to know Gackt would be in FFVII. Hell I think even if I did like Gackt I'd still be put off by that idea. As it just seemed like it was tainting the game to me.
But yeah, I can let it go that people like him. I'm fine with that. I like a lot of characters people don't like so I don't hold it against them. But most people who do like Genesis still admit to the fact that yeah, he is Gackt, unless they don't know about Gackt. But this guy, he knows, and yet argued that he is a legit character and that my point made no sense. n_n; So I pointed out how Genesis kinda screws up the original plot of FFVII by even existing. The fact he has a single wing and is part of the Project and a General kinda takes away from Sephiroth's unique-ness that he always had before CC was made. And they screw around with a lot of the original story in all the compilation games. There are scenes that don't work right with the original. Most notably in CC with Genesis talking to Sephiroth in Nibelheim as that scene is an actual scene in the original game but without Genesis obviously.
Well this guy argues that Genesis can't be a Mary Sue because he isn't powerful at all and "the easiest boss fight in the game". Well that latter bit all depends on individual game play as I didn't think he was the easiest. O_o; And he didn't get my point that I was referring to the fact that Sephiroth was supposed to be the only one like that. But eh, whatever.
But then I got kinda "..." when he argued that Genesis is "canon" (when I made the point that he is not a canon character with the original story and that Crisis Core isn't really canon in general) because he's in Dirge of Cerberus. ...which I had to laugh at and told him that of all the games, I consider Dirge the LEAST canon and try to forget that one ever existed. As seriously that one really fucked up the game plotline and Genesis' appearance at the end STILL makes no sense (and I still dread that it means they plan to do another game at some point involving him being around after Dirge >>;;).
So I'm making the point that even though I do like CC and AC, I still don't think they're really canon. They have plot points that are kinda fishy and most of it really is just about the graphics and fight scenes which I appreciate but yeah...the original game will always be the best.
...then he tells me he hates the original game.
....yeah.
I'm like "Ok, how can you be a FF7 fan and hate FF7? O_o;"
"I'm not. I'm a Crisis Core fan."
-_-
That seriously just kinda killed me. I hate when people claim to be fans but refuse to play the original or don't like it. And then he goes on to list his reasons why he hates the game (which a number are reasons why I LIKE the game). His main point was that he hates Cloud. And of course we all know I love Cloud so I'm like "ok obviously we can't see eye to eye on this as you hate all the things I love about FF7 and you like all the things I hate with it." But I also brought up the fact that really now, you still can't dispute that Genesis is Gackt and mentioned the fan theory that he got the part just because Square wanted to make it up to him for the whole Squall thing.
Him: "What about Squall? >> He's my favorite character ever."
Well then. That would explain a lot.
So I tell him about the thing with FFVIII and the whole "conspiracy" that Square ripped off Gackt's Illuminati design (I never did find out if this whole debate was real or not with the claim that he sued them or if he even cared at all, as everything I heard was just rumors from fans). And while I agree that design is similar, the outfit is pretty different so it wasn't like they did a direct rip-off anyways but yeah, I've always joked about that being the reason why Gackt is in FFVII whether the rumor is true or not.
But I then went on to make the point that I like Cloud because of all the disorders he has and I find him extremely fascinating because of it. While he claims that there's something "wrong" with liking Cloud's disorders yet claiming Genesis doesn't exist. Because I pointed out to him the scene where Genesis talks to Sephiroth in CC (when he insisted that Genesis never talked to Seph in Nibelheim O_o;) and then after I showed him, he said it didn't mess FF7 up at all because Genesis wasn't at the "burning" scene and I point out that the scene DOES exist in FF7 and that it was in a flashback of when Zack follows Seph into the reactor but of course we see it from Cloud's POV 'cause this is when Cloud still doesn't know his memories are of Zack's...and the guy claims that Genesis does exist. Cloud is just too fucked up and a lame hero and thus doesn't remember him.
...
So after I tried to comprehend that one. I then pointed out that I couldn't understand how much he liked Squall as I find that character to be the most boring FF character out there. And after he dissed FF7's battle system (saying that was another reason he hated FF7) I then turned and asked him how he could possibly like FF8's as that one is seriously the worst of them all.
...and he tells me he's never played FF8.
...
That he likes Squall because of Kingdom Hearts and Dissidia.
Yet he claims Squall is his favorite character.
Ok if you were going by just KH, wouldn't you call him Leon instead? n_n As I still believe that KH Leon and FF8 Squall are two different characters. They act too different to really be the same guy and I actually like KH Leon while I can't stand FF8 Squall. lol And seriously Dissidia tells you nothing about him anyways.
So yeah...
I hate fans like this. n_n Normally I wouldn't really even argue that far with one but this guy was someone that's been in the thread I hang out in for quite a while so was trying to understand him since it's someone I can't just ignore. But ugh. Seriously?
...no wonder so many of my friends have given up on this fandom. It's full of idiots who only like the newer stuff and don't appreciate the original stuff. I miss the days of old. T_T And yet I can't give up the fandom as I like it too much but I really do miss the days before the compilation existed. I mean I do like the compilation (except for Dirge) but it just changed so much. Blah.
End rant. Sorry if some of that didn't even make sense. I should be going to bed. XD; *braindead*
~Lyn
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no subject
Date: 2010-07-20 02:47 am (UTC)And I agree about Squall as well, as I too think he sucks, and this is coming from a FF8 fan. Love that game, it has my favorite battle system in the series (have to disagree only on this point :p), played it from start to finish 3 times at least, but admittedly Squall and Rinoa are terrible characters.
Anyway. I resent the Compilation. I resent it with a passion. I've ranted about it more times than I could count. It makes me sad and full of rage. Yes, it brought a lot of fans to the series and basically kept the fandom alive, but at the same time it changed nearly everything I loved in the original game. Characterizations, canon (GTFO MY FFVII GENESIS), the atmosphere, Cloud (most people think Zack is the true hero of FF7 nowadays :'[), Aeris, even the theme of the game itself (it's not about bishies and hot gay men fucking, guys). Nearly none of these so-called "new fans" played the original game in the first place, because all they're interested in is the bishonen and the pretty graphics (who cares if the plot of the new stuff is full of bad melodrama and totally contradicts FF7's plot, right?) - and therefore most of what we get from the fandom these days is about as shallow as it can be, which makes me sad, since I can't let go of the story I liked experiencing so much (but tbh I've considered leaving this fandom many, many times, but in the end I just can't because I love the original game and the Cloud/Sephiroth relationship that much ;_;). And I'm not even that old, played FF7 barely six years ago and have been a hardcore fan ever since.
I'd prefer the fandom to close to dead at this point but with few people who at least viewed FF7 as how it used to be, not tainted by new additions that have nothing similar to it at all. Sigh.
And to close this resentful post, I think you might be interested in joining this community:
no subject
Date: 2010-07-20 05:42 pm (UTC)lol But in all seriousness....
I just can't stand Squall or Rinoa. Or Selphie either but I was able to at least tolerate her (she just made me twitch a lot with some of her lines). Took me the longest time to get through that game of all of the FF games I've ever played. I think it took me a full year and I had to take a break for a few months and played FF6 instead. lol Mostly just because of those two! Gah! Though I loved the graphics and I liked Laguna.
I have such mixed views on the Compilation now. I wanted to be happy for it all at first 'cause I figured "well Square can do whatever they want, I should support my franchise" but seeing the types of fans that have resulted because of it...disheartens me a lot and makes me have 2nd thoughts towards it all. If they hadn't tampered with it. And they didn't invent new characters. It would have been fine! Ugh. -_- And I'm worried that if they do ever actually make a FF7 remake that they'll screw it up too to fit with the Compilation, change things for the new fans and that will just make me weep. I want it untouched except for the graphics being buffed up.
Most of the new fans refuse to play the original game 'cause they can't stand the graphics or how old it is. *sighs* I honestly love going back and playing the older games. Still a few that I haven't played that I mean to. (Like I still have FF5 sitting around, which I've had for years and never touched, lol.) Though of all the sequel stuff they've done for the FF games, I gotta say that the FF4 sequel actually looks good. I haven't played it yet but I love the fact they kept it in old school style and I kinda wonder if that's one where the plot had already existed but they didn't release it, thinking there wouldn't be a bit interest in it. As from what I've seen of it, it seems to fit in with the old plots we used to have in FFs pretty well. There's none of the elements they've been putting in the other stuff to make it all snazzy.
But yeah, I can never leave the FF7 fandom. Love it too much. And omg I had no idea a community like that existed. XD Will have to go join now.
no subject
Date: 2010-07-21 01:51 am (UTC)OMG yes. This is also the reason why the Compilation bothered me so much in the last years: the fans. I mean I'd be able to ignore what I didn't agree with in the new stuff if the fans nowadays weren't so specifically focused on it, forming their opinions on the characters using the Compilation as a basis and totally ignoring the game that started it all. It's like they don't even know that the original FF7 exists D: I can't even discuss with people who diss Cloud because really, this is Square's fault. They changed his characterization. For some reason they toned down his crazy and strength and leadership in every other game he appeared, focusing only on his weaknesses, and that's why people get a wrong impression of him these days. And yeah, if CC had only the original characters with a Zack/Sephiroth friendship (I've always thought that they were like best buddies ;_;) it would have been the sweetest game ever and I'd love it so much.
OH GOD THEY CAN'T CHANGE ANYTHING IN A REMAKE. NONONONONO ;_; I want a remake but at the same time I don't know if I can trust Squeenix to do it D: I loved the FF4 remake, but FF4 doesn't have a "compilation" dammit (and yeah that sequel looks innocuous enough, from what I saw, plus it features Cecil and Rosa's son, how can it not be awesome? <3)
Oldschool FF's FTW! I always go back and play them too, as well as other SNES rpgs that I love, such as Earthbound :D Anyone who judges a game based on its graphics is, with all due respect, a fucking idiot :p